"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.
"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
Quote: EdJames wrote in post #16[quote=Amontillado|p39517] I believe in American principles. I hope to never renounce American citizenship.
I used to believe in Americans principles in the fashion of those at the time of the founding.... two centuries later, they no longer exist, except in historical tomes on their way to being burned away forever. You won't need to renounce your American citizenship.
There are dangers. If we secede, we're in bad shape if the new Republic makes stupid decisions. I don't want Texas to become the next Venezuela. We will be burdened with too much liberal baggage from places like police-defunding Austin.
The dangers of remaining in the effectively dissolved union (see @Tinker's comments that I recorded in post 16 of this thread) are far greater and more perilous than any that an Independent Texas will encounter. I far more trust Texans to do a better job of avoiding making stupid decisions, than I do the proven failures in DC.
Detaching from the liberal baggage of Lost Angelos, Chicago, Atlanta, New York, and most importantly Washington, DC is a far more important than having to merely focus on dealing with the liberal baggage from places like Austin, Dallas, and Houston.
Apologies for dropping out of this conversation. It's been busy here!
I don't disagree with the arguments made for secession. In a perverse way, Washington DC makes the most compelling arguments for secession with its deeds. Every tyrannical federal overreach increases the need for either secession or remediation.
In particular I do not plan to yield my natural right to defend myself against criminal and dictator alike. I actively practice 2nd Amendment rights daily, primarily as a point of philosophy. I also like being able to defend my family. Any law putting distance between a peace-loving citizen and firearms is an immoral law, void on enactment by the Bill of Rights.
A few minutes ago I called Representative Matt Schaefer's office. I think I scored a point, maybe, with the person who answered my call.
When I mentioned TEXIT, I could hear his eyeballs rolling up. Then I pointed out the referendum is as much a chance to voice support for the federal union as it is to condemn it. When the National Anthem plays, you can put your hand over your heart and thank God you're not just a country boy, but that you're an American country boy. Or, you can take a knee, if you can stand to look at yourself in the mirror the next day.
But if the National Anthem doesn't play, you don't have either opportunity.
The referendum issue isn't about secession. The decision whether or not to give citizens a clear voice on a topic being discussed by many is a First Amendment issue. A vote against the referendum is a vote against the right to petition the government.
Legislators aren't voting up or down on secession, they are voting up or down on the First Amendment.
@Amontillado, good points, particularly the right to petition. I will use that.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.
"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
Quote: Amontillado wrote in post #35I don't disagree with the arguments made for secession. In a perverse way, Washington DC makes the most compelling arguments for secession with its deeds. Every tyrannical federal overreach increases the need for either secession or remediation.
Exactly the case!!
Every 24 hours Washington, DC generates another set of compelling reasons for Texans to seek an independent Republic of Texas!!
“We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent people.” ― George Orwell
Quote: EdJames wrote in post #16[quote=Amontillado|p39517] I believe in American principles. I hope to never renounce American citizenship.
I used to believe in Americans principles in the fashion of those at the time of the founding.... two centuries later, they no longer exist, except in historical tomes on their way to being burned away forever. You won't need to renounce your American citizenship.
There are dangers. If we secede, we're in bad shape if the new Republic makes stupid decisions. I don't want Texas to become the next Venezuela. We will be burdened with too much liberal baggage from places like police-defunding Austin.
The dangers of remaining in the effectively dissolved union (see @Tinker's comments that I recorded in post 16 of this thread) are far greater and more perilous than any that an Independent Texas will encounter. I far more trust Texans to do a better job of avoiding making stupid decisions, than I do the proven failures in DC.
Detaching from the liberal baggage of Lost Angelos, Chicago, Atlanta, New York, and most importantly Washington, DC is a far more important than having to merely focus on dealing with the liberal baggage from places like Austin, Dallas, and Houston.
Apologies for dropping out of this conversation. It's been busy here!
I don't disagree with the arguments made for secession. In a perverse way, Washington DC makes the most compelling arguments for secession with its deeds. Every tyrannical federal overreach increases the need for either secession or remediation.
In particular I do not plan to yield my natural right to defend myself against criminal and dictator alike. I actively practice 2nd Amendment rights daily, primarily as a point of philosophy. I also like being able to defend my family. Any law putting distance between a peace-loving citizen and firearms is an immoral law, void on enactment by the Bill of Rights.
A few minutes ago I called Representative Matt Schaefer's office. I think I scored a point, maybe, with the person who answered my call.
When I mentioned TEXIT, I could hear his eyeballs rolling up. Then I pointed out the referendum is as much a chance to voice support for the federal union as it is to condemn it. When the National Anthem plays, you can put your hand over your heart and thank God you're not just a country boy, but that you're an American country boy. Or, you can take a knee, if you can stand to look at yourself in the mirror the next day.
But if the National Anthem doesn't play, you don't have either opportunity.
The referendum issue isn't about secession. The decision whether or not to give citizens a clear voice on a topic being discussed by many is a First Amendment issue. A vote against the referendum is a vote against the right to petition the government.
Legislators aren't voting up or down on secession, they are voting up or down on the First Amendment.
thanks for contacting Schaeffer too on secession. @Amontillado
My own contact produced a confused response from him, posted elsewhere.
I have since written him a much more thorough letter, using some of the points @Sanguine kindly provided. I have yet to hear back from him but surmise he knows where I stand, and the simplification that the referendum is just one of a preference to remain loyal to the Union or to consider further a separation.
"If the Union is dissolved, I shall return to my native State, and share the miseries of the people, and save in defense will draw my sword on none" Robert E. Lee, February 1861 following hearing of Texas secession.
Quote: Amontillado wrote in post #35I don't disagree with the arguments made for secession. In a perverse way, Washington DC makes the most compelling arguments for secession with its deeds. Every tyrannical federal overreach increases the need for either secession or remediation.
Exactly the case!!
Every 24 hours Washington, DC generates another set of compelling reasons for Texans to seek an independent Republic of Texas!!
If Dems want this so bad, why not vote it into law in Congress?
We all know the reason why on that one.
"If the Union is dissolved, I shall return to my native State, and share the miseries of the people, and save in defense will draw my sword on none" Robert E. Lee, February 1861 following hearing of Texas secession.
Quote: Isailedaway wrote in post #38 thanks for contacting Schaeffer too on secession. @Amontillado
My own contact produced a confused response from him, posted elsewhere.
I have since written him a much more thorough letter, using some of the points @Sanguine kindly provided. I have yet to hear back from him but surmise he knows where I stand, and the simplification that the referendum is just one of a preference to remain loyal to the Union or to consider further a separation.
Nice handle - I love sailing. AC boats with their high-tech running hyrdofoils, traditional boats, anything with sheet and tiller. Like that great song, The Day The Tall Ships Came, says, "Windjammer, sloop and ketch, brigantine and yawl," I like them all.
Your Lee quote sums up a lot of my thinking. I would not draw blood to keep California in the Union. I'd be much more willing to help them pack. It would be nice reciprocity if they would show us the same courtesy.
Does anyone know of a mailing list of all Texas legislators? If there isn't a spreadsheet of legislative offices, ready to drive mail merge, I might have to make one.
I'll share, of course, if there isn't something already out there.
Quote: Amontillado wrote in post #40Does anyone know of a mailing list of all Texas legislators? If there isn't a spreadsheet of legislative offices, ready to drive mail merge, I might have to make one.
I have a CSV file of all current Texas representatives and senators.... it isn't in a form that would be ready for a mail merge, you would have to do some work in Excel or some scripting on it to get it ready for that.... but it is a start, with respect to the data contained.... it is currently alphabetically sorted by the legislator's surname....
It looks like this:
If you want it, let me know and I can email it to you at the address you used to register at the forum....
“We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent people.” ― George Orwell
If Dems want this so bad, why not vote it into law in Congress?
We all know the reason why on that one.
Well, that could be the end of my adult, measured, mature, reluctance for secession. We don't need someone to direct gun violence.
We could use a revitalized Office of Civilian Marksmanship. Check out their web site at https://www.thecmp.org. Lots of happy kids safely competing with air guns and firearms.
Beyond the sanctity of American guarantees of preexisting rights, I'm very concerned about the philosophy of disarming citizens. If we set aside all the sharp objects, we will evolve a society incapable of responsibility. I can't be the responsible gun owner I strive to be if I'm prohibited from having a gun. All prohibition leads to is being protected from myself and dependent on others. I don't want that.
When I was in second grade, my Dad gave me a pocket knife after I demonstrated I could handle it safely. From age seven through the present day, I've been without a pocket knife maybe three times. Every day I went to school with my pocket knife, just like most boys and probably a fair number of the young ladies, too.
For me, a knife in my pocket isn't just a useful implement, it's a token of self-reliance. After I graduated from high school, knives in schools got pretty much universally banned. I don't think the emergence of horrific violence in schools is the result of the knife ban, but I do think that everything that takes away the obligation to be responsible endangers us all.
Besides, think about whether you would feel safer at a gun range in the company of fellow enthusiasts - heavily armed - or, say, at an Antifa rally with possibly fewer firearms. Me, I'll head to the gun range every time. There's that warm feeling of being among one's own kind, plus there's all the delightful conversation with friends you haven't yet met.
If Dems want this so bad, why not vote it into law in Congress?
We all know the reason why on that one.
Well, that could be the end of my adult, measured, mature, reluctance for secession. We don't need someone to direct gun violence.
We could use a revitalized Office of Civilian Marksmanship. Check out their web site at https://www.thecmp.org. Lots of happy kids safely competing with air guns and firearms.
Beyond the sanctity of American guarantees of preexisting rights, I'm very concerned about the philosophy of disarming citizens. If we set aside all the sharp objects, we will evolve a society incapable of responsibility. I can't be the responsible gun owner I strive to be if I'm prohibited from having a gun. All prohibition leads to is being protected from myself and dependent on others. I don't want that.
When I was in second grade, my Dad gave me a pocket knife after I demonstrated I could handle it safely. From age seven through the present day, I've been without a pocket knife maybe three times. Every day I went to school with my pocket knife, just like most boys and probably a fair number of the young ladies, too.
For me, a knife in my pocket isn't just a useful implement, it's a token of self-reliance. After I graduated from high school, knives in schools got pretty much universally banned. I don't think the emergence of horrific violence in schools is the result of the knife ban, but I do think that everything that takes away the obligation to be responsible endangers us all.
Besides, think about whether you would feel safer at a gun range in the company of fellow enthusiasts - heavily armed - or, say, at an Antifa rally with possibly fewer firearms. Me, I'll head to the gun range every time. There's that warm feeling of being among one's own kind, plus there's all the delightful conversation with friends you haven't yet met.
We need that referendum.
Gun violence is lessened when the threat of being shot by someone defending themselves or their property is real.
Criminals know that, and so do we who carry.
"If the Union is dissolved, I shall return to my native State, and share the miseries of the people, and save in defense will draw my sword on none" Robert E. Lee, February 1861 following hearing of Texas secession.
Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:12 pm (Last edited: Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:15 pm)
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